Changes between Initial Version and Version 1 of projects/membership-meeting/2012/notes/priorities-feedback

Nov 4, 2012, 5:06:04 PM (8 years ago)
Jamie McClelland



  • projects/membership-meeting/2012/notes/priorities-feedback

    v1 v1  
     2= Notes from small groups on the Priorities =
     4== Carlos Gimenez's group ==
     8A. Infrastructure
     10C. Support. Same as A.
     12B. Membership.
     14G. Unity. Political Vision of Technology.
     16E. Education and Training
     18D. Software Tools,
     20F. Tech Support for Liberation Struggles.
     22== Amy L. Dalton's group ==
     24here is the ranking from the "umbrella" group, with several notes.
     26- amy, on behalf of myself, dan, stefan, carlos & hilary
     30E - noting that the "harnessing the resources within our membership
     31network" (to build the skills of our membership) was an edit we added
     32with care.
     34B -
     36D -
     38F - noting that "local" seems to be missing from the spanish version.
     39we feel "local" should refer equally to all localities, wherever a
     40member is located.
     42C -
     44G - noting that we did an edit just before the final edit that went in
     45a somewhat different direction. we paste it below for your
     46information. we did begin a discussion with the crescent group on this
     47but did not have an agreement.
     49A - noting that we are putting this at the bottom mainly because we
     50didn't agree with the final edit -- stipulating that this capacity
     51would be built specifically through revenue and staff -- this seemed
     52to us to be both limiting as well as potentially too specific of a
     53directive to give to the LC.
     58our version of G:
     60Build unity and political clarity among MF/PL members about the statement of unity and what it means to be a member.
     62Desarrollar la unidad y claridad política entre los miembros de Primero de Mayo/Enlace del Pueblo sobre la declaración de unidad y lo que significa ser un miembro.
     64==  Steve Revilak's group ==
     66Hello -- here are the scribe's notes from group 3.
     70=== Discussion about Points ===
     72We discuss on use of language.  Group has speakers who are fluent in
     73english and spanish, but we feel that it will be too hard to
     74concentrate on both languages at once.
     76#1 Ensure fast stable and reliable hosting services.
     78Does anyone have any objections?
     80This should be expected, a standard, the foundational aspect of
     83Seems concise and complete.
     85#2 Actively  target recruitment and develop leadership of people
     86historically blocked ...
     88This could be couched in the context of ending racism.  It should be
     89more specific.  It should explictly name groups.  Use or racism has
     90ecalated during this electorial camapaign.  It's stunning, almost as
     91if it were okay to be racist.  May first has the opportunity to do
     92this concretely.  Next year, there should be more latino and african
     93people.  There's not a level playing field in terms of people of color
     94who have technical knowledge.
     96The 5th member response really addresses this goal ("this survey is
     97preaching to the converted ...").  If you get the point of activley
     98recruiting the problem, part of the problem is ensuring that everyone
     99has a good computer and decent internet access.  That's something
     100Mayfirst is not equipped to do.  We have to elaborate, noting that
     101technology is financially out of reach of many people.
     103What about fixing computers and giving them to people.  There's an
     104organization, Techschange, that does this in Boston.  You could also
     105give out USBs with free software, linux.  You could get old computers,
     106rebuilt, install free software, and give away or sell at a very low
     109Those of use who can reasonably afford a new computer, we can go to
     110the store and get a new one.  My old computer is perfectly good and I
     111could donate it.
     113South end tech center (Boston) takes computers fixes them up and
     114donates them to students.  There are organizations that would be
     115willing to work with you.
     117#5 Raise Technology capacity
     119My nephew is a real techie.  Some people can figure it out from
     120books.  I need to sit down with someone who will show me how to do
     121things.  I had a Linux computer and had to give it up; I was baffled.
     122I wound up going to windows.  I didn't want to, but LInux was
     123incomprehensible to me.  Maybe Mayfirst could offer workshops, to show
     124people how to use linux.
     126This could be a dialog, a bridge between the organizers and the
     127technology.  There shouldn't be a divide between tech and non-tech
     130I use a lot of software that I don't master, and I'm constantly
     131looking for people that can help me with my skills.  A 1/x, 2/x year
     132workshop might be something Mayfirst to do.
     135Other: THere's a member response (#7) that's not reflected in the
     136goals.  "Raising awareness of surveillance ...".  That could fall
     137under priority #5 or priority #1.  Probably an expansion of #1 --
     138being secure.
     140Warrantless wiretapping.  NSA tapped into telco routers.  There's
     141nothing that Mayfirst could do to stop that.
     143The movement isn't just about software, it's about general security.
     145Maybe that could be one of the courses offered.  It could be a whole
     146separate workship there.
     148The website itself could be so much more informational.
     150I think this falls under the last point -- shared vision of the
     151internet.  We don't want an internet where people are constantly
     154Security and surveillance is a topic unto itself.  Let's put it in as
     155a separate topic.  We can use the language from the comment.
     157On #2.  People who can't use library are inherently vulnerable.  How
     158often do libraries clean them out and do security scans.  That makes
     159people whose use library computers more vulnerable.
     161There are other peoples who are historically blocked, but mostly
     162they're people who are the targets of racisim.  There's a material
     163divide, the knowledge is mostly held by white.  Mayfirst is in a
     164position to do something about this.
     166I'm concerned about the rasicm point, #2.
     170=== Editing Points ===
     172We edit a few points.  Here are some scratch edits.
     174Actively recruit, collaborate with, develop leadership skills, and
     175elicit participation from people who have historically been blocked
     176from accessing, developing and having ownership over technology.  This
     177includes people who have been targeted as a result of capitalism,
     178racism, and colonization, including people in the US.
     181Actively target recruitment and develop leadership skills and
     182participation of people historically blocked from accessing,
     183developing and having ownership over technology.
     184This includes people who have been targeted as a result of capitalism,
     185racisim, and colonization --
     188Actively target recruitment and develop leadership skills and
     189participation of people -as a result of capitalism, racism and
     190colonization - historically blocked from accessing, developing and
     191having ownership over technology.
     193Mayfirst should raise awareness of surveillance and policing as it
     194affects our internet usage and vulnerability.
     197=== Comments and order of points ===
     199The new versions are all twice as long as the originals.  They got
     200twice along, and they're more wordier.
     202(A) I don't like the addition of increased revenue and more paid
     203staffing.  We also wanted to add to (A)
     205    raise awareness and counter surveillance and policing as it affects
     206    our internet usage and vulnerability.
     208    (This sentence was taken from the survey comments).
     210(B) We wanted to explicitly include racisim and colonization, and
     211mention people who had been targeted (in addition to people who have
     212been blocked).
     214(C) is nice and consise.  But we're really concerned about racisim in
     215the united states.  (c) is consice, but by omission, it doesn't
     216address racism.
     218Think of what they do with the internet in Cuba.  They have them
     221Through public private collaboration, they can create tier one
     222internet users (government, big business), and then there's a tier
     223two, who isn't quite as important.  Tier 3 could be people who watch
     224NFL on their computer.  Tier 4 could be policitical groups.  Tier 99
     225could be us.
     227I'm glad we have the ability to comment this year.
     228How do we feel about the order?  We agree with the order that's there.
     230== Ross' Group ==
     232Order of Priorities List (group music symbol)
     233A B E G C D F
     235and some other ideas/suggestions:
     237adding concrete things to each item.
     239Added language for B:
     240MF/PL will develop ongoing practices to develop working relationships
     241with marginalize groups in order to facilitate participation of
     242marginalized groups - as ways of building the table, as well as who's
     243at the table.
     245Some added thoughts for G:
     246Developing shared values rather than identical values.
     247Thinking in terms of multilingualism.
     248Thinking in terms of technological 'multilingualism' - the ways that
     249many of us use MFPL and Facebook, and other structures both
     250open/community-based and propriatory/corporate, and ways to bring
     251those shared values into all of that.
     252The tight interconnections among member education & organizing; new
     253member recruitment; outreach to members and beyond...
     255== Rob Korobkin and Franco's group ==
     257From Franco:
     259Hi compas :)
     261It was a very interested discussion in virtual group.
     263Patrick Gibbs, Rob Korobkin, gdm from tachanka and me worked the live discussion and tried to organize specific proposals related to the 7 priorities as finally left in CDW. However it was a very rich brainstorm from many others visions around MF/PL work.
     267BTW i don't know which were the final results of voting, and missed the final stage after CDW.
     269Thanks for the great opportunity of join MF I'm learning lot of things everyday.
     271Take care of yourself.
     273From rob korobkin:
     275the following is the transcript of what came into the etherpad during the
     276discussion today - definitely some good stuff in there.  it starts with
     277some notes on the end of the morning session followed by the discussions
     278from the later session.
     283Ollinca (in Mexico, in Spanish): I want to speak to the process of
     284solidarity in Mexico and the struggle to bring organizations together.  And
     285I would say that for many organizations on the Mexico side - the decision
     286to make this merger was very sudden.  And the comments from the folks seem
     287to be pretty satisfied with the structure - I think that's really important
     288from at least the Mexican side that bring so much hard work and commitment
     289to this movement.  And I think that it's important to say that we need to
     290do more work, more collective work.  I feel that there are many members of
     291this organization who may not know how to integrate in a more seamless
     292way.  I think people have a lot of good will and so hopefully we're going
     293to be able to work in a way that's much more coordinated.  And I think
     294that, from the international perspective, the analysis of this relationship
     295doesn't seem very equitable, and I think that folks that have some
     296different perspectives on these issues - we're in a position now where
     297we're going to be working together, and we need a lot of good will to be
     298able to work together.
     300John (American in a tech cooperative): I was just looking into our
     301financials, and I have a question about the outstanding receivables?
     303May First Staff: So, we have our first real numbers here on May First's
     304finances.  But because we have a sister city, we haven't brought in all of
     305our dues from there, and we don't have the most recent numbers.  So not all
     306the invoices are in the system.  We figure that there are about $20,000
     307worth of dues that won't come in, and $20,000 worth of dues that will come
     308in soon.  We're changing our policy so that if somebody doesn't pay dues,
     309after a few months, they can't be a member.  We're building this financial
     310system from scratch - hopefully next year everything will be up to date.
     312Ok, so I think the current top two priorities are - improving internet
     313stability (this one); improving international collaboration (which is
     314probably closest to B but also incorporates some of F as we've been
     315discussing below)
     316I'd be more oriented to E and B since that would be a clear priority in
     317order to better our documentation, as somebody put on A priority
     318(reliability of services?) we should have better documentation, most
     319oriented to processes and task solving. We were talking about closing the
     320tickets shouldn't stay open anymore since it leads to a lot of confusion
     321about where can we participate helping other fellows.
     322I'd put E third I think: some experience has been that organisations are
     323reluctant to move to new providers if they can't guarantee uptime etc, and
     324lots of groups still think in a very capitalistic way: we need to prove to
     325them that free software/open source tech is as good if not better than what
     326they are using already. As such, it needs to be at least equivalent in
     327terms of availability for them.
     328Well, I agree A is above at everything, after that, I think "building
     329unity" It's more effective learning together (E as a way to B) rather than
     330subscribing declarations (G)
     331I think some of it comes down to the basic question of what MFPL is an
     332organization - if it's primarily a provider of infrastructure, then yeah,
     333the most important thing is the quality of infrastructure that it provides
     334- if it's more of an organizing front working on building a social
     335movement, then other things are probably just as important if not more so.
     338*A Reliability of hosting services // Confiabilidad de servicios de
     342   - Ensure stable, fast, secure and reliable hosting services (4.75)
     345   - Garantizar que los servicios de hospedaje sean estables, rápidos,
     346   seguros y confiables (4.75)
     349   - brindar  soporte técnico eficiente sobre los servicios que se
     350   prestan,  resolución rápida de dificultades, una clara visualización de
     351   problemas  existentes y vías de colaboración.
     354   - with clear documentation (both process-oriented and
     355   technology-oriented)
     357  - Process-oriented  documentation means something like "Welcome to
     358   MF/PL, here are some  common tasks that you might want to know how to do
     359   using the MF/PL  infrastructure. 1) Change your website from
     360 to 2) Create a Drupal-based website. 3)
     361   etc."
     364   - technology-oriented documentation is what The Organic Internet essays
     365   focus on: learning how specific technologies work.
     368   - Tachanka: I've heard complaints about uptime/reliability, would be
     369   good to focus on this ;-)
     372   - Don't  entirely know - I'm not a huge sysadmin. But maybe more use of
     373   virtual  server replication and load balancers so that there's better
     374   duplication  (if server A goes down, server B is still running and the load
     375   balancer  fails over to that one??)...
     379B Recruit people historically excluded from technology, and promote
     380their leadership // Incorporar a la gente históricamente excluida del
     381acceso a la tecnología y promover su liderazgo
     384   - Recruit for membership people and organizations blocked from
     385   accessing,  developing and having ownership over technology, and prioritize
     386   their  participation as members of the leadership committee, the support
     387   team,  the international committee and as representatives of the
     388   organization.
     391   - Reclutar  miembros  y organizaciones bloqueadas de acceso, desarrollo
     392   y  teniendo  propiedad sobre tecnología, y priorizar su participación como
     393   miembros  del comité de liderazgo, el equipo de apoyo, el comité
     394   internacional y  como representante de la organización.
     397I like this idea a lot - it seems closest to what it would mean to take an
     398"organizing" approach to this work.  But I'm not sure how we'd execute it.
     399I think one useful step would be the creation of a number of local MF\PL
     400chapters around the world.  Code For America has been very successful at
     401creating region-based networks in a bunch of different cities and areas
     402around the country that engage the people in those areas in doing Civic
     405  - maybe  it would be interesting to elaborate on how existing
     406   infrastructure and  community hosting organizations can interact with
     407   MF/PL. We know others  in the region ...
     410   - Yeah  - even just a database \ directory of radical tech cooperatives
     411   and  service providers (like the Slingshot directory of infoshops) would be
     412   a  huge step in the right direction.
     415   - I  mentioned above creating some sort of map/directory. This might
     416   coincide with AnilloSur and N-1, since those provide a way for
     417   participatory / self-mapping and communication.
     420   - Yeah,  and short of creating actual MFPL chapters in different places
     421   - this  directory would be a huge help to people looking to connect with
     422   other  radical techies in their area.
     425   - yes,  I believe this would be great. Maybe some sort of network, which
     426   does  not necessarily imply MFPL chapters, but organizations with their
     427   own  identities, sharing some common principles.
     430i have been very active with the Techies of Color training program, a pilot
     431project that was initiated in the last year. i would love to see mfpl do
     432more of these kinds of things.
     434I like a lot  the idea of Techies of Color, however is a bit harder to
     435duplicate it here in México since we can NOT budget the same way. In chat
     436group we were talking about clarifying this priority, we should to look for
     437means of letting people engage more actively in learning processes through
     438solving problems together with support team, in example.
     440What, specifically, could MFPL do to support programs like Techies of Color?
     445C Provide tech support to movement // Proporcionar soporte técnico a
     449   - Participate in and provide technology support to major left movement
     450   struggles (4.11)
     453 - Participar y prestar apoyo tecnológico a las luchas más importantes
     454   del movimiento de izquierda (4.11)
     458D Help build the open source movement // Ayudar a construir el
     459movimiento por el software libre
     461   - Help build the movement for free/open source software  and an open and
     462   accessible Internet, particularly within the broader  left (4.10)
     465   - Ayudar a construir el movimiento por el software libre y por un
     466   Internet abierto y accesible, en particular dentro del amplio  movimiento
     467   de izquierda (4.10)
     471Elevar la capacidad de nuestros miembros con las herramientas de software
     474   - Raise the technology capacity of our members to use free and open
     475   source  tools for organizing, empowerment and security -- through
     476   educational  workshops, public awareness campaigns, and collectively
     477   improving our  documentation including by harnessing resources within our
     478   membership  network.
     481   - Elevar la capacidad tecnológica de nuestros-as miembros para utilizar
     482   las herramientas de software libre útiles para su seguridad,
     483   empoderamiento y sus procesos de organización -- a través de talleres,
     484   campañas de concientización y mejorando colectivamente nuestra
     485   documentación utilizando y promoviendo el intercambio entre los miembros
     486   de la red.
     492   - Promote the Internet as a means for strengthening international
     493   alliances and struggles (3.72)
     496   - Promover al Internet como medio para el fortalecimiento de las
     497   alianzas y luchas internacionales (3.72)
     500   - Build connections and solidarity among May First/People Link members
     501   both around our visions for the Internet and technology and around our
     502   broader struggles.
     505   - Desarrolar los vínculos y la solidaridad entre los miembros de Primero
     506   de Mayo/Enlace de  Pueblo en torno a nuestra visión del internet y
     507   tecnologia y las luchas que compartimos en un sentido más amplio.
     511   - Patrick: MF/PL  has sometimes been described as a "hemispheric
     512   organization of the  Americas" and yet has members (and activities?) in
     513   Europe and Africa. So  some clarification of (the) MF/PL vision(s) in terms
     514   of geography could  help MF/PL decide what to focus on as an organization.
     515   I guess this  relates to Priority G in a way.
     518   - Some thoughts from Europe
     521   - ======================
     524   - (written by gdm based in the UK, but stems from conversation with ekes
     525   and clara who are in the Netherlands as well)
     527We don't feel that MFPL is very international - it's very America focussed
     528(particularly North and Central for obvious...
     530   - Patrick  says: MF/PL has an explicit statement to become a
     531   hemispheric  organization uniting the Americas, and I haven't seen anything
     532   in  writing or video about involvement beyond the Americas (I joined a
     533   couple months ago).
     536   - Patrick there are a number of groups outside of the americas as active
     537   members
     540   - I brought it up because that's what I've been told about MF/PL, not as
     541   an idea that I created. It's in Alfredo's videos.
     548   - As a group based on using this hardware, we (can) take responsibility
     549   to change the system of production and post-use.
     552   - Yeah - I agree that MFPL has a big role to play in solidarity with
     553   FoxConn workers and people being exposed to toxic junk yards in India (and
     554   elsehwere).  There is a VERY REAL cost of all of the technology that we use.
     558   -
     560Hmm. I'm not sure quite how to interpret that - does it mean, we should
     561leave? Or, does it mean that there's something wrong with MF/PL philosophy,
     562then? There are many explicit statements about MFPL providing technological
     563access to a wider community, particularly groups that are of similar
     564political thinking. Further, a number of the statements by people who are
     565standing for leadership committee positions specifically talk about
     566increasing international cooperation and trying to break down borders.
     568   - I would prefer that it doesn't mean you leaving, though I also see
     569   some logic in geographical organizations. I think that with the wave of new
     570   members in Mexico, and the conversations I'm having here in Argentina,
     571   MF/PL is just starting to think about how to really function as a
     572   multi-local organization, or perhaps how to ally with similar organizations
     573   already established in other places, already providing functional services,
     574   such as Código Sur in Latin America.
     576I agree there is some logic to geographical organisation, but there is also
     577some logic to *not* organising geographically ;-) tachanka - of whom i and
     578ekes are a part, although we three (inc. clara) all have individual
     579memberships as well - is a non-geographical organisation, deliberately
     580designed that way to try and overcome problems that may exist within
     581certain legal domains. Tachanka has been a member of MFPL since it was
     582formed and I didn't realise that there was an explicit statement about it
     583being an americas-only organisation - this is certainly not obvious on the
     584website (e.g. from looking at the about page) but maybe I missed that.
     586   - Connecting the dots with a comment on IRC: 15:28 < rob_korobkin> how
     587   do people feel about the idea of creating local chapters - eg) Bay Area
     588   MF\PL, Vermont MF \ PL etc. seems like a necessary step toward
     589   accomplsihing priority two.
     590 - There's a video, and some pages on the wiki, where Alfredo and others
     591   talk about becoming a hemispheric organization. I think this doesn't
     592   exclude people elsewhere, maybe it's just a first step at growing to
     593   connect more places, by starting close to home where MF/PL started, in the
     594   Americas.
     596OK, I've not watched the videos as I don't generally have time nor that
     597much interest in video, and it's hard to keep up with all the wiki stuff!
     599I guess the point is, that there is actually a growing number of groups in
     600Europe who make use of MFPL services (e.g. hosting, drupal provision etc)
     601and yet we get lots of emails about essentially irrelevant subjects -
     602"there's a meeting at the Brecht Forum this week" etc - which presumably
     603are not of relevance to a lot of other people either. It might be better to
     604have more generic/relevant email newsletters, and then to have local lists
     605(or something).
     607   - I've been a member for a couple months and gotten zero emails, though
     608   I think that's a technical bug. :-)
     611   - Another point: If a goal of MF/PL is to break the north/south divide,
     612   that might be another motivation for focusing on the Americas, instead of
     613   focusing on connecting the rich northern countries with each other. I'm not
     614   saying such connection is outside my vision of MF/PL, I'm just pondering
     615   why there's a focus on the Americas.
     617So, why has there been a big focus on MFPL doing projects in Africa?? (That
     618may have preceded your time - I think it was around winter 2011-2012)
     619Africa projects came about for different reasons: 1) the world social forum
     620was there. 2) sahara reporters joined as a member
     624I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I really don't think
     625there's been an active attempt to exclude any radical techies from
     626participating in MF\PL - regardleess of where they come from.  - I agree
     627with that.
     629   - So, then, let's update the language of MF/PL to reflect this reality.
     631For sure.  Institutions of private capital sure as hell are global - we
     632need to be too. another nod of agreement here :)
     634   - I don't know where to begin, or what it means. I'd ask Alfredo, since
     635   he's the one who talks about a hemispheric organization in his video
     636   updates.
     637working with our European, Asian and African friends.  Like solidarity with
     638Russian anarchist hackers would be awesome.
     640   - I've wondered about where to find a map/list/description of similar
     641   organizations world-wide. Once we know who we are and what we're already
     642   doing, we can more effectively figure out how to collaborate on conrete
     643   stuff, such as service provision, service maintenance, training,
     644   documentation. I think we're in that process.
     646Well, there are some political differences, so I think that such a mapping
     647exercise is hard to do. For instance, I think that MFPL has quite radical
     648politics in a US sense, but in a European sense, the politics of the
     649organisation are rather more mainstream - particularly the hierarchichal
     650structure (I've discussed this lots with Jamie over the years) but actually
     651MFPL works well with several of the anarchist groups "over here"
     653I don't know if it's heiarchical so much as it's centralized.  Seems to be
     654a big circle stemming from new york and reaching out to people other
     655places.  the only real way i can see to change that would be to create
     656autonomous, independent MFPL groups in different places
     658   - With the influx of members in Mexico, and conversations here in
     659   ARgentina about forming an MF/PL node, there are conversations about
     660   running servers in Mexico and Argentina. Even the concept of "an MF/PL
     661   node" is something I made up in order to have conversations here in
     662   Argentina about how we could participate in MF/PL here.
     664It is definitely difficult, as much of the internet / technological systems
     665are built on hierarchical methods. It's definitely hierarchical tho - and
     666you're right, quite centralised as well. Autonomous groups would be
     667awesome! But maybe a bit idealistic (we should struggle for our ideals
     668though, no?) Maybe some better use of federated technologies would be good,
     669although I'm not sure which would be best for that and I know there are
     670already attempts to use friendica type things.
     671I guess, my vision isn't necessarily that we'd need to have autonomous
     672technological infrastructure everywhere, so much as we'd have autonomous
     673human infrastructure everywhere.  Even just having self-sufficient local
     674organizations mobilizing meet-ups, tech co-ops, skill-shares, free schools
     675etc. (a lot of which is already happening and would just need to be
     676networked) would go a long way.
     678   - Some people here just plain won't join if there are only servers in
     679   the US. Also, sticking with centralized server hardware ignores what's
     680   happening with IPv6, FreedomBox, redes libres
     681   (free/libre/community-and-user-owned networks) and other
     682   projects/technologies that enable home-based hosting and otherwise
     683There is at least one server in the UK!!
     685   - For some people I've talked with here, they will only join when there
     686   are servers in Latin America, and preferably in their country and/or city.
     687   Partly due to the legal situations in those center-of-the-empire countries.
     688   Partly, maybe it's easier to influence telecom policy in the country where
     689   one holds citizenship, and some folks don't want to be beholden to the US
     690   citizens and gov't to define the policy that controls the servers where
     691   their data sits.
     693To bring it back to priority B - if what we're talkign about is recruitment
     694and leadership development - you don't need a server bay to do that, you
     695need people on the ground and in the community.
     697   - Well, in Argentina I'm on the ground, and folks from Altermundi joined
     698   the conversation today (nicoechaniz, alamela) because they work with Código
     699   Sur (provides services similar to MF/PL, in a way, though less), and they
     700   have the capacity (or intend to soon) to setup servers in an IEX that's
     701   being built in central Argentina.
     704   - Perhaps my tone is becoming more argumentative than I like.
     706Nah, you're fine Patrick.  What do you think the folks in Argentina whom
     707you're working with would want from MFPL?  How can we support them best?  I
     708mean, I think that's the question we need to be answering.
     710   - *at any rate, all of this is left out of the CWD where official
     711   priority definition happened and is about to close or already closed.*
     714   - I think I don't / didn't understand what we were meant to be doing....
     715   I was just providing a view from Europe as I don't really know how to feed
     716   back anythign into MFPL but thought there were somethings that could be
     717   improved
     720   - Tachanka - I don't understand it either, but I'm enjoying the
     721   conversation ;-)
     724   - Me too! It's nice to talk with new people that I don't really know and
     725   hear their thoughts on the organisation :)
     728   - Yeah - I'm starting a section below where people can write a couple
     729   sentences about who they are and what they're working on.               
     730 -
     733   - What do people here want? First, checking out MF/PL to see what's up.
     734   Beyond that, we'll continue the conversation in coming weeks. So far,
     735   Código Sur exists and provides web hosting and website design and
     736   maintenance to community projects throughout Latin America. But there's
     737   nothing like MF/PL in the sense of the Statement of Unity and the function
     738   as a hosting provider where I can make my websites myself, and the internal
     739   democracy of MF/PL is also quite different from the way Código Sur
     740   functions.
     742There's some hosting available in the uk, of various sorts. however, most
     743of our really political stuff we host overseas - tachanka has some servers
     744colocated with MFPL in nyc, and some in Canada with as well as
     745a few others in various places that are less publicly-orientated. There are
     746also other UK collaborations that I think would work well with MFPL - but
     747it's very hard to explain exactly what/why people should do that if MFPL is
     748such an American-focussed organisation (as I mentioned earlier).
     750I guess my big desire for MFPL is for language to become more unifying (on
     751an international level) and less exclusory, and for people to become more
     752aware that the audience is  very broad.... I must say, that if there are
     753$20,000 dues to come in, that's probably quite a lot of members, including
     754many groups which have multiple individuals in them, so that's a lot of
     757Yeah - I think there are so many people who see the power and value of the
     758Internet and are looking for something that won't just be a front for
     759corporations to data mine the shit out of our communities.  Yep, that's
     760definitely true over here too - lots of people share very strongly the (IT)
     761values of MFPL
     764   - Worth asking nicoechaniz and alamela directly what they think. Also,
     765   Santiago Hoerth, a founder of Código Sur, is in touch with Enrique (of
     766   Mexico), though I don't know how much or what their conversation is.
     769   -
     772   - this is an odd place to chat :) but anyway... I'm nicoechaniz from
     773   AlterMundi/CodigoSur. We currently provide hosting and other services to
     774   lots of latin american organizations. We would like to talk about how MFPL
     775   and CódigoSur/Altermundi can interact to benefit both organizations.u   distributed topology.                       
     777  -
     780   - Perfect, you found us! Nico, do you know Tachanka? And did you read
     781   your way here from above?
     784   -
     787   - part of it actually :) i just thought I would pitch in since you were
     788   talking about AM/CS :)
     791   - Good. So, from what you've seen so far, what's your current response
     792   to the question of "What  do people in Argentina want from / with MF/PL?"
     795   -
     798   - well, I believe we have similar objectives and it would be interesting
     799   to find a way to share resources for example. We do this with
     800guifi.netin Cataluña, Spain. As you noted, we are planing to set up
     802   infrastructure here in Argentina and maybe this (or part of it) could be a
     803   "joint venture" with MFPL. Our "target" is usualy organizations and
     804   movements where people have very little technical skills and we develop our
     805   work around that situation.  Our CMS is developed for this specific
     806   "target" (I don't like this marketting term.. but well); we also ara part
     807   of the CLiC mmm college? (escuela). It's name: Cultura Libre y
     808   Comunicación, which is a project focused in popular education on these
     809   matters. It's a joint effort from 3 organizacions (from cuba, ecuador and
     810   us). I beliebe we have much to talk about :) and see how we might interact;
     811   though this medium is a bit awkward  hehe
     814   - What's your CMS? er, and your website? ;-)
     817   -
     820   - the CMS is called
     821   Cyclope, and the documentation is in a neat language of describing the
     822   software modules as the organs of a mammal  or other vertebrate animal.
     824 -
     827   - and it's specific website:
     830   - and development/documentation in English:
     831   (this one moved to the one below... we need a redirect)
     834   - ...and some more
     837   - Thanks :)
     840   -
     843   - yes, this medium has been very challenging for me. it would be great
     844   to figure out how to better dialogue with you all! there is ALOT for us to
     845   talk about, and work on together!
     848   -
     851   - As far as collaboration with MF/PL here in Argentina, one possiblity I
     852   see is using the MF/PL organizational concept (redefining what a hosting
     853   provider is and how it functions) and maybe even the MF/PL name in order to
     854   gather people together, and use some of what the new members here pay to
     855   contribute to buying servers for Altermundi/CS.
     858   -
     861   - that  might be interesting. though, regarding name and project
     862   trajectory Código Sur is probably better known in latin america... because
     863   of it's involvement in the social movement since the first foro social
     864   mundial. so we should find a way to collaborate while mantaining
     865   identities... I believe...
     868   - The opportunity to buy servers together could be great for all parties
     869   involved I believe. I don't know much regarding where exactly MF/PL hosts
     870 it's servers and wether it would be interesting to MF/PL to host some
     871   infrastrucrure here in the south, where, for one, there's no FBI :)
     874   - At least, the FBI/CIA/NSA doesn't have official jurisdiction.
     877   - The MF/PL servers are all in New York City as far as I know, though
     878   earlier today someone mentioned a server in the UK. There are details in
     879   this support ticket:
     882   -
     885   - And earlier conversation about an Argentina node here:
     888   -
     891   - The server in the UK i think is a monitoring server.
     894   - well USLA is the other organization I believe it would be interesting
     895   to have some collaboration agreement with.
     898   -
     901   - there is a server in europe somewhere and one in canada. i think
     902   hosting servers with other allies/partners is a great idea!
     905   -
     907hehe, I was thinking we were discussing F ;-) I think it fits under B as
     908well :)
     910Well even in F - the Internet can strengthen alliances and facilitate
     911radical movement building without being hosted in the area where the
     912content is coming from \ going to.
     916*What do people want from MFPL (extracted from above):*
     918- To "see what's up," "stay in the loop" - be kept informed about what's
     919happening within the radical technologist movement and hear about new
     920projects that they might be able to participate in and utilize in the work
     921that they're already doing.
     923- To help foster a sense of radical purpose \ mission to ongoing projects -
     924uniting many different kinds of projects happening in many different places
     925with a shared spirit of what this work is all about and why it's
     926important.  Lots of projects don't really have that - they do good work,
     927but they don't have the emphasis on radical democracy or the dedication to
     928fostering ownership \ autonomy that MayFirst! does - it would be good if
     929MayFirst! could help spread that culture and philosophy.
     931- To build a truly international community of radical techies \ shared
     932infrastructure.  There are questions about the extent to which MFPL is
     933really doing this (some in Europe feel it's too focused on the Americas),
     934but nobody else is doing this either.  Capital is global, we need to
     935be too.Being positive, this can be done fairly easily by changing some
     936of the
     937language that is used and being aware that MFPL is now a much larger
     938organisation and more widely spread geographically than it maybe once was
     939(when things were primarily in or near NYC).  We also talked about creating
     940a directory of radical techies around the world, maybe eventually moving
     941toward actually creaitng local chapters in different places.
     943- Share resources - as MFPL builds out its own infrastructure, people in
     944other countrries working on similar capacity building efforts are looking
     945to MFPL for collaboration and sharing.
     947- There were lots of suggestions on things that MFPL can do:
     948   * clarify the objectives
     949   * newsletters about what other groups are doing (already done in part by
     950some of the Lowdown emails)
     951   * create local groups/chapters/mailing lists to connect people on a more
     952regional basis
     953   * compile a directory of groups \ individuals doing radical tech work
     954around the world.
     956had this summary been sent to ??
     957no - i don't think anything's been sent anywhere yet.
     960Who's in this conversation:
     962Rob Korobkin - I'm an organizer, writer, techie currently living in
     963Portland, ME about to move to Vermont as part of an effort to radicalize
     964the labor union of state employees there.  I'm currently looking for people
     965who have experience overhauling membership databases for mid-size
     966organizing fronts and have some sense of what the best media technologies
     967are for reaching out to seniors.
     969gdm - member of tachanka. i'm based in .uk and have been closely involved
     970with MFPL since 2005 when i helped work on colocation with jamie and dkg
     971(also tachanka members). i had a conversation with ekes and clara (from on friday about feeding some stuff back into MFPL which is i guess how
     973this side track thread started.
     975josue - co-founder of mfpl. on the leadership committee for the last two
     976years. based in austin, tx. work for the progressive technology project,
     977which has been developing PowerBase, a branded version of CiviCRM,
     978specifically for use by community organizing groups. we currently have 60+
     979groups using PowerBase. all of it hosted on mfpl.  josue - would PowerBase
     980be a good solution for a radical labor union with 6,000 members?  right now
     981we've got a sql database with a super-simple Access front-end on it.  i'm
     982looking for a better option.
     984Patrick Gibbs - joined MF/PL a couple months ago after watching it for a
     985couple years. Participated in LibreBus Cono Sur in September and took
     986conversation about MF/PL on the road through part of Argentina.
     988nicoechaniz is a member of Código Sur an AlterMundi. CS provides hosting
     989and infrastructure for social movements and NGOs as well as "formación"
     990through educación popular initiatives (someone please translate that :).
     991AlterMundi focuses on appropriate technology, now mainly developing Free
     992Community Networks.
     994tezcatl (Jesús Franco) is a recent member of mayfirst, first participating
     995as translator for RiseUp documentation, presently I'm one of the
     996translators of MF/PL, wikigardener and jack-of-all-trades, I'm from Mexico
     997and helped here several organizations to empower through free and open
     998source software and secure ways to use internet.
     1000== Aaron Moysen's group ==
     1002Anexo el documento donde se vertieron consideraciones desde México,
     1003respecto a la redacción final (que sabemos sigue en discusión.)
     1004Se trata de una redacción acordada por los tres grupos de trabajo en donde
     1005de manera explicita estan contenidos las prioridades de consenso.
     1006Así como comentarios relevantes.
     1008Saludos desde México.
     1009Aaron Moysen.
     1013A. Garantizar que los servicios
     1014de hospedaje y comunicación
     1015sean estables, rápidos, seguros,
     1016confiables y sostenibles, considerando
     1017las necesidades de la operacion y del
     1018equipo de soporte técnico. La buena marcha de la infraestructura debe ser un compromiso tanto del equipo de soporte tecnico como de los miembros.
     1023•Fomentar el contacto y enlace en
     1024busqueda de una claridad en la
     1025participacion politica. Si las
     1026organizaciones proponen su
     1027participacion en la busqueda
     1028de solucionar objetivos.
     1035B: Reclutar miembros y organizaciones bloqueadas de acceso, desarrollo y teniendo propiedad
     1037B: Reclutar miembros y organizaciones bloqueadas de acceso, desarrollo y teniendo propiedad sobre tecnología, y priorizar su participación como miembros del comité de liderazgo, el equipo de apoyo, el comité internacional y como representante de la organización.
     1040(Enfocar activamente en la incorporacion y el desarrollo de mas capacidades y participacion de las personas excluidas por la economia de mercado e historicamente del acceso, el desarrollo y el control sobre la tecnologia.)
     1042Existe disenso en los terminos: •capitalismo; considerando las relaciones economicas dentro del contexto, politico y social.
     1043También modificar las palabras
     1044•liderazgo y
     1047ACtualmente las diferentes realidades exluyen a nuevos grupos desplazados historicamente.
     1049Deben desarrollarse mas y mejores relaciones entre los grupos y entender los contextos de quienes participan o son relegados del acceso a la tecnologia.
     1051Hay otro contexto que significa un esfuerzo mayor de contruir o fortalecer grupos dentro de izquierda en EUA. antes que los enlaces con otros paises.
     1056C: Participar y prestar apoyo tecnológico y capacitación de a las luchas de emancipadoras  del movimiento de las izquierdas.
     1061Existe disenso en las palabras:
     1062•luchas de resistencia. ya que tiene una conotacion defensiva. / Las luchas de resistencia forman parte del movimiento progresista.
     1064Y Como focalizamos los esfuersos y recursos? considerando que estos son limitados.
     1066•"Infraestructura" es importante para la comunicacion para sobrepasar a los servicios comerciales existenetes como AT/T.
     1068•Compartir los saberes tecnologicos, no solo apoyar de manera remota sino incidir en la transferencia tecnologica.
     1070•La presencia de un cuadro tecnico que forma mas cuadros tecnicos es una estrategia y objetivo fundamental.
     1071Se confia en el comite entrante/saliente para toma de determinaciones.
     1073•Como "apoyaria" las luchas de manera directa?
     1074-R: Facilita y es un medio entre organizaciones aliadas. (por medio de eventos como un ejemplo.)
     1075-R:Contribuye en agenda a partir de las prioridades de los grupos o luchas.
     1076-R:Las luchas exigen esfuerzos globales. La lucha en México respecto a la mineria por ejemplo no lograria fuerza a menos que se una a otras luchas similares en otras latitudes como algo inicial.
     1077•Para este espacio hay que entender a los usuarios que usan la tecnologia y los que la desarrollan, invitando a entender que ambas partes deben incidir en conjunto y verse como uno mismo con actividades diferenciadas.
     1080D: Ayudar a construir el movimiento por un Internet abierto y accesible, constuyendo infraestructura basada en software libre, en particular dentro del amplio movimiento de las izquierdas como una demanda ético-política emancipatoria, como por ejemplo la economia solidaria.
     1086E: Elevar la capacidad tecnológica de nuestros-as miembros para utilizar las herramientas de software libre útiles para su seguridad, empoderamiento y sus procesos de organización -- a través de talleres, campañas de concientización y mejorando colectivamente nuestra documentación utilizando y promoviendo el intercambio entre los miembros de la red.
     1090•Elevar la "capacidad tecnologica y comunicativa"
     1091•El ambiente y la responsabilidad como un factor y la privacidad como principio rector.
     1093•Añadir "consumo responsable" "sustentable"
     1094•Como ayudar a las org. que es importante lo anterior.
     1100F:Promover al Internet como un medio seguro para el fortalecimiento de las alianzas y luchas internacionales.
     1105•Tecnicamente es todo un tema combatir
     1106no solo promover al internet como algo seguro.
     1108•Se requiere trabajar de maneraactiva para que el software libre tambien sea seguro, fortalecer a los programadores trabajando en ello. La tecnologia en manos de las agencias gubernamentales no permiten que el internet sea seguro desde la perspectiva informatica. Proponer el tema de las politicas publicas incidiando en este tema.
     1110•Promover pero tambien consolidar al internet como algo seguro desde el trabajo de las politicas publicas.
     1112•Promover el uso de herramientas seguras para el fortlacecimiento de alianzas y luhas internacionales a traves de internet.
     1114•Hubo debate sobre este ultimo tema sobre "seguridad"
     1116•Aun falta un rol en las prioridades, sobre el uso inadecuado de internet, su adiccion etc. que puede llegar a paralizar las luchas sociales.
     1118•Hablar de un trabajo de promocion de internet y por otro el software libre, ambos comparten protocolos de tecnologias abiertas, internet ofrece tecnologia que permite que cualquier sujeto o gobierno puedan colgarse de ellas por ejemplo. Cuando una tecnologia puede enajenar, debe observar aspectos antropologicos para reconocerla. Las tecnologias enajenantes son principalmente de consumo y por el contrario las que apoyan la expresion de un pueblo pueden estar en otra categoria.
     1119•Existe una necesidad en fortalecer cuadros tecnicos existentes, para las luchas y el internet libre. Trabajar con los cuadros tecnicos que permiten desarrollar la tecnologia y hacerla accesible.
     1125G:Desarrollar vinculos y solidaridad entre Primero de Mayo/Enlace de Pueblo entre nuestrxs visiones del internet y tecnologia y entre nuestrxs luchas mas anchas.
     1131•Como no se logra unidad por todos los miembros, se propone que exista unidad por medio de los poyectos especificos.
     1133•Una vision compartida del futuro de internet con un marco ideologico dinamico que se va consolidando.
     1135•Para participar de mayfirst, te adscribes a una vision y marco ideologico inicial que se entiende puede ir transformandose.
     1136Añadir marco de derechos.
     1138•Se analiza la cuestion de unidad y es de resaltar que se aborde el tema cuando no se ha resuelto porque es un tema de discusion constante y que requieren de la practica y experiencia de la participacion constante. 
     1139•Si falta unidad entre la membresia, Podria proponerse esto como prioridad dentro de una redaccion, cual es el problema al respecto.
     1141•Deconstruir un proceso como este nos llevaria a entrar en una dinamica que proviene de otros trabajos previos.
     1143•Para desarrollar unidad tendria que mantenerse comunicacion por otros medios como publicaciones, pero se requiere metodo.
     1145•Es un punto que se refiere a los principios.
     1147•Queremos que todos los miembreso de primero de mayo sean participativos en la construccion de un internet libre, con capacidad|||||||||||||||, compromiso e interes y ganas. Pero arraigado desde nuestras luchas. Fortalecer la membresia de 1o de mayo a favor de un internet libre.
     1149•"Desarrollar vinculos de dialogo y compromiso entre los miembros de 1o de mayo, enlace del pueblo para lograr una vision compartida del futuro de internet libre en el marco ideologico que se vaya consolidando."
     1151== Daniel's group ==
     1153I'm reporting back from the 2012 May First/People Link membership
     1154meeting's online workshop, for group ☾ (crescent moon).
     1156I'm cc'ing what i hope is the correct e-mail address of my other group
     1157members, in the hope that they'll speak up if i'm not representing the
     1158perspectives adequately.
     1160We found we couldn't give a simple rank-ordering of the final versions
     1161of the priorities presented at the end of the workshop.  There was
     1162healthy disagreement within our group about some points, and there were
     1163sufficient problems with the phrasing of some of the priorities that we
     1164felt the need to try to explain our agreement or disagreement with them.
     1168Highest: Priority A (with modifications)
     1170> Ensure stable, fast, secure, reliable, and sustainable hosting services
     1171> through increased revenue and more paid staffing.
     1173> Garantizar que los servicios de hospedaje y comunicación sean estables,
     1174> rápidos, seguros, confiables y sostenibles a traves de aumento de
     1175> ingresos y aumento en personal aslariado.
     1177While the group all felt that the things being ensured here were
     1178critical to the project, and agreed that increased revune and more paid
     1179staffing would be good things, we thought that other mechanisms to
     1180acheive these goals probably exist and should be pursued in concert with
     1181the stated mechanisms; and we don't want to see revenue increased if the
     1182tradeoff becomes a loss of political identity.
     1186Next: Priority E
     1188> Raise the technology capacity of our members to use free and open source
     1189> tools for organizing, empowerment and security -- through educational
     1190> workshops, public awareness campaigns, and collectively improving our
     1191> documentation including by harnessing resources within our membership
     1192> network.
     1194> Elevar la capacidad tecnológica de nuestros-as miembros para utilizar
     1195> las herramientas de software libre útiles para su seguridad,
     1196> empoderamiento y sus procesos de organización -- a través de talleres,
     1197> campañas de concientización y mejorando colectivamente nuestra
     1198> documentación utilizando y promoviendo el intercambio entre los miembros
     1199> de la red.
     1203Next: B and G (tied)
     1206> recruit for membership people and organizations blocked from
     1207> accessing, developing and having ownership over technology, and
     1208> prioritize their participation as members of the leadership committee,
     1209> the support team, the international committee and as representatives
     1210> of the organization.
     1212> Reclutar miembros y organizaciones bloqueadas de acceso, desarrollo y
     1213> teniendo propiedad sobre tecnología, y priorizar su participación como
     1214> miembros del comité de liderazgo, el equipo de apoyo, el comité
     1215> internacional y como representante de la organización.
     1218> Build connections and solidarity among May First/People Link members
     1219> both around our visions for the Internet and technology and around our
     1220> broader struggles.
     1222> Desarrolar vinculares y solidaridad entre Primero de Mayo/Enlace de
     1223> Pueblo entre nuestrxs visiones del internet y tecnologia y entre
     1224> nuestrxs luchas mas anchas.
     1226While these priorities are important, there was significant discussion
     1227(and no consensus) within group ☾ over which one should take priorit
     1229In B's favor: recruiting members needs to happen before organization
     1230structures become too permanent or rigid.
     1232In G's favor: the creation of a solidarity network and a reliable
     1233political core is itself a strong argument for recruitment: people join
     1234for the allies.
     1239Next: C and D (tied)
     1242> Participate in and provide technology support to major left movement
     1243> struggles.
     1245> Participar y prestar apoyo tecnológico a las luchas de resistencia y/o
     1246> mancipadoras del movimiento de las izquierdas.
     1249> Help build the movement for free/open source software and an open and
     1250> accessible Internet, particularly within the broader left.
     1252> Ayudar a construir el movimiento por un Internet abierto y accesible,
     1253> constuyendo infraestructura basada en software libre, en particular
     1254> dentro del amplio movimiento de las izquierdas como una demanda
     1255> ético-política emancipatoria, como por ejemplo la economia solidaria.
     1257We were concerned about lack of specificity in C -- some people could
     1258see "major left movement struggles" as referring to; there
     1259was a general sense that we don't wan that from MF/PL.  OTOH, support of
     1260Occupy seemed like a winner.
     1262We were also concerned about the apparent drift between the two
     1263languages in D -- it's difficult to endorse something when there are two
     1264divergent interpretations.
     1268Lowest: Priority F
     1270> Promote the Internet as a secure means for strengthening local and
     1271> global alliances and struggles.
     1273> Promover al Internet como un medio seguro para el fortalecimiento de
     1274> las alianzas y luchas internacionales.
     1275This proposed priority was clearly, noticably marked "last" by the
     1276group.  In particular, people voiced concerns about the prioritization
     1277-- we wanted to promote global alliances and struggles, and to promote
     1278secure use of the internet in service to those struggles and alliances.
     1279But there was a strong and deep skepticism about promoting the Internet
     1285I hope i did a faithful job of communicating the concerns and thoughts
     1286expressed.  If i've failed to do that, i hope that other members of
     1287group ☾ will speak up and clarify any misrepresentations or omissions
     1288i've made.
     1290In solidarity,
     1292        --dkg